On September 12, 2009, ten of thousands of protesters marched to the U.S. Capitol to express their disdain for the President's health care plan and government spending. Carrying slogans that read "Obamacare makes me sick" and "I'm not your ATM," protestors chanted "Enough, Enough!" Some protesters even carried pictures of Obama with the signature mustache of Adolf Hitler and referred to him as a socialist and communist. The idea of a government-run health care system has many concerned and worried about the future--their future and their children's future. And that concern has awakened the nation--encouraging citizens to seek the truth. What is the truth behind Obama's health care plan? Check out the below links.
Fact Check: Decoding Obama's Health Care Plan
The Truth--Lott's Numbers, Part II
The Obama Plan
After what we've read in Chapter 3 and what you've learned about Obama's Health Care Plan, what are your thoughts?
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Ok here it goes, I think Obama is trying too hard. He seems to be a little lost. His thoughts on this health care plan are all over the place, and are trying to be clearified a lot. Maybe he is struggling to be the best he can, I mean being the president isn't an easy job. It's a power struggle these days.
ReplyDeleteDid anyone else see the man texting at 8:34 in the video? Anyway, I think From a Marxist lens, that I can safely say all of the people in the room with Obama lead financially secure lives, so since they are on tv and don't want to lose the power they have, they support the idea, and like the solution because it shows they helped the poor and now they don't have to deal with them for a while. I think it's a great idea, and I'm glad he is finding solutions because it can't be easy, I don't know if it's the best policy but it's what we have for now, and we learn through trial and error
ReplyDeleteI would agree with Merissa that all the people in the room with Obama are financially secure. However, it did not look like all of them agreed. Many of them did not applaud or stand up while others where.
ReplyDeleteI think Obama's plan has its pros and cons. He is trying to make it better for the people of lower class. He even said that this insurance plan would not affect people with insurance, and that it could only affect people without insurance if they wanted to. He claims that this plan will materialize savings. However, if the plan does not produce savings, he said that they will make some spending cuts. My question is what kind of spending cuts will the government make? Cut spending towards schools, war, social security, financial aid? Where will the money be taken out of?
Obama metions that he would not sign anything that takes any money away from the people. Which is a good thing. However, he adds that walking through the doors of the white house, he was faced with a trillion dollar deficit because of many initiatives made over the last decade were not paid for. He is pretty much saying that the past governement is to blame for the deficit. Who do you think is really to blame? Should the government hold all the responsiblity or should the American people hold some of the blame for our deficit?
ReplyDeleteGoing off what Shayna asked, I don't think the government can ever be held 100% responsible for their actions, after all the people did in fact elect most of them. (There is some debate over many elections throughout history). Yet I can see how many would interpret this healthcare policy as a socialist move. It provides for those in need, undermining monopolies such as the one President Obama illustrates in Alabama. It also helps out small businesses thus giving aid to the upper proletariat class. 6:50 to 7:00 in the video shows the socialist aspect very clearly. Yet since this is a capitalist nation Obama sadly must present the idea in a way fitting to the capitalist ideologies. He describes it as providing competition for big business to promote quality for the consumer instead of discussing how this will increase the quality of living for many in the proletariat class. It's almost sick that he must focus on the consumerism to promote helping our species to live better.
ReplyDeleteI think it's crap that everyone's calling him a Socialist now that he's done this. Clearly, we--as a nation--are in a bit of trouble. We need action bring us out of this slump. Obama is the president, and this is how he thinks our needs would be best me. He knew that he would be attacked, called a Socialist, but if he thinks this is what's best, he's going to go through with it.
ReplyDeleteI really agree with what Willy said: "Since this is a capitalist nation Obama sadly must present the idea in a way fitting to the capitalist ideologies." I is unfortunate, I think, that this is probably what MUST be done for Obama to get extremely widespread support. We are a capitalist nation, we are American's, our system is the best, we hate change. We are a stubborn group of people, and we are too proud to admit we just may need this kind of drastic change to help us.
Obama's proposal is a two-dimensional wall. It appears sturdy, and nearly indestructable. Upon further examination however, you realize it is quite fragile, and almost certainly doomed to fail. Obama declares his program wouldn't drain money from the current medicare budget. (I personally think it makes more sense to kill medicare; if Obama's healthcare plan works, what need will there be for medicare?) He also claims he will not take advantage of independent healthcare companies monetarily. It appears to me that he is wishing this money out of thin air. Obama proposes no fund from which we can draw money, and no program to eliminate. Where is this money going to come from? or rather, who is it going to come from?
ReplyDeleteMy guess is that it will end up coming out of the pockets of middle class families. The initial chapter on Marxism explained the reason for why there was a rift between the middle and lower class.It is because they are forced by the bourgeoisie to keep the poor afloat with their money. The passing of this plan will only further that hatred, with an enormous tax increase, the middle class will be supporting the poor more than ever. This only worsens the vicious cycle already put into place by the extreme upper class.
Ok, so, I understand the goal of the reform; to end "abuse" of the insurance companies towards its customers. He is giving a choice to Americans who can not currently afford an insurance policy because of such high rates (due to lack of competition, which is exactly what this reform will provide). And how is Obama planning on funding the new option? Through spending cuts on materials and savings within the health care system.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I'd like to see this plan to succeed, I simply can't. Just as Mark said, where is this money really coming from? The holes in the current health care system. So instead of refunding the fraudlent money, he is going to use it to pay for those who are not currently covered. Is this what he is saying or am I taking it wrong? And how is he going to reform the system? By providing competition to the already successful insurance companies. I don't see this helping our economy in any way. I agree with Willy and his idea that it is sad to think we have to relie on consumerism to better our systems.
But you know what I find extremely interesting..
I used dictionary.com just to get a simple explanation of socialism to better my viewpoint while watching the video. This is what the 3rd definition said:
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles
Transition into communism? Hmm.. Does this idea provoke any thoughts?
Obama came into presidency during one of the worst times possible, since our country is in a recession and we have military stationed over in Iraq. I believe people expect too much of him and think that change should have already
ReplyDeleteoccurred; it takes time for change to happen.
I agree with Willy and Nick when they stated that since we are in a capitalist nation then we must propose ideas in a capitalist manner. You want the support of the people to back you up and the only way for their support is to give them what they want. Capitalist ideologies work best in our nation because we are so competitive and always try to outdo one another. In the book “Tuesdays with Morrie”, Morrie makes a statement saying “What is wrong with being number two?” Honestly what is wrong with being number two?
I think everyone likes the idea of universal healthcare, which makes us much more easily drawn in by a flawed plan. There is simply no money for this. Without a tax increase, where does he plan to come up with trillions? I don't think they can cut spending enough to make up for it without eliminating something we need, and if they can then why hasn't it been done already to help counter the deficit?
ReplyDeleteFrom a Marxist perspective the plan is great because it empowers the proletariat by helping to reduce the struggle to make ends meet. It is also in direct contradiction to rugged individualism, which is viewed as a limiting ideology.
In response to Julie's question, I believe she makes a good point. What is wrong with being number two? Nothing, besides being less than number one. Just like we have discussed in class, part of the American Dream is wanting to rise up and achieve more, to be number one. It is a part of our nature, to crave challenge to better ourselves. But in this situation, I see ourselves digging a hole that keeps getting deeper and deeper. Maybe what our society needs is to become stable (even if that means surrending the "number one" title) so we don't dig ourselves into an even deeper hole. But how is stability even possible to achieve in a time of society that is constantly changing?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Julie's statement. Obama came into his presidency at a really difficult time. People are expecting big changes quickly.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing i think people need to remember is that the whole health care idea is a PLAN. its not set in stone, and changes and things can be made to make it more clear and reasonable for those who dont agree.
Now, obama is kind of scattered in his thoughts, and its a good idea. But will this whole health plan thing work out? No one really knows.
Emily made some good points. I know that around the cold war time there was the "Red Scare" which was when everyone thought Communism would take over our Capitalist society we already have set up. However, I don't really think that we are even close to even attempting to become a Communistic society.
ReplyDeleteI also would like to know where this money is coming from. Like Shayna said i can see it coming from other budgets that are seen as less important. What defines a group as less important anyway? Will they get the money they need from education or social security (which is already running out too quickly), or from the taxes from the middle class, like Mark said. Surely they wouldn't dream of making the Congress men and women take pay cuts, because that just wouldn't be fair to them now would it? It's much more reasonable to take the money from the middle class where the money from their paycheck comes from in the first place.
There have been several posts asking where this healthcare plan money is coming from. I'd quickly like to direct attention back to the video posted above, I don't remember the specific time at which Obama says this, but he clearly states that the planned healthcare is to run like a private business in that is is going to be selfsufficient--the money comes from the people buying the health insurance, the difference being that in his system, no money goes to stock holders or gratuitous exectuive salaries. The start up money will most likely come from taxes already in place, and instead of directly attempting to pay off the debt, some will go to starting (not running) the new healthcare company that just happens to be under government regulation. At least that's impression I got.
ReplyDeleteEmily, I love the definition you posted of socialism being the imperfect transition phase! Although I don't believe true Marxist communism a plausable way to run a large body of people, I love to think we may work towards the true universal equality it represents. I think the key word to that definition is "imperfect." That really seems to describe the prposed healthcare plan. Just curious, has Obama spoken of implementing any other "socialistic" policies?
Willie i really like how you defined what Obama seemed to have in mind, as for setting up the health Care system. I think we were all just missing that part. It makes sense to model it after a business. That way you have a better chance of regulating it and making sure it's carried out in the best possible way for everyone.
ReplyDeleteI like the thought Emily and Julie had where maybe its okay for us to be number two. I honestly think nothing is really wrong with being number two. We might even have a better chance of succeeding with something. Like Emily said it's part of our American dream. To achieve great things and always trying to be the top one, while sometimes actually falling short and still remaining in second. We are competitive by nature so maybe if we just put ourselves second we can come up with the best solution to our current situation.
I agree with Julie, America is struggling right now and it was just hard times when Obama was elected. Our problems are not just a one word solution, they take time and a lot of effort to move forward and try new things. A lot of people are afraid of change, especially if they are happy with where they are in life. Having money and power is what we all strive for, and when change comes along we run. On the other hand people who want change will risk everything because they hav enothing to lose.
ReplyDeleteI really liked what Mary said about how we are competitive by nature.
ReplyDeleteHaving that competitive spirit really drives our american dream, and like her and emily said, i dont mind being number two.
You work and you acheive your goals, and being number two can influence you to maybe become number one.
In response to what Julie said, I guess there really is nothing wrong with being number two. Compared to the rest of the world, we have very high standards of living; America IS a great place to live (hence why we have so many immigrants and illegal aliens).
ReplyDeleteBut the problem with being number to is, like I said before, we are too stubborn to accept that. We have to be the best. It's classism, it's Capitalism, it's survival of the fittest, it's everything we've been taught since we were children: We have to be the best. If we're not number one, we haven't tried hard enough, and we must achieve that top rank no matter what the costs are.
Okay, perhaps I am simply missing a restriction or something, but how can he say that less than 5% will take advantage of this government-funded healthcare system? A company with no interest rates or extra fees is obviously preferrable in comparison with what we are currently offered. I cannot see how, assuming everyone is allowed to transfer, no more than a meager 5% will join.
ReplyDeleteI understand that with the new company set in place, prices of independent corporations will drop, but how can they triumph over a program while still making a profit at all. And if they are still allowed to make a profit, then the government project would make profit as well. The whole system is filled with holes, and accordingly holds no water in my opinion.
I like what Danielle said about this just being a plan. The problem is that I don't think President Obama sees it that way. He is pushing to get this bill passed through too fast, before anyone will have had real time to patch the holes. Once the bill passes it WILL be set in stone, and that is where the problem lies.
ReplyDeleteI agreed with Danielle. Obama's plan is just that. A plan.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to know what is wrong with wanting every American to have the right to healthcare.
And I am so tired of people being so disrespectful to the President of the United States. I know I was young when Bush made all of his speeches, but I don't recall any audience being so disrespectful (at least not until the guy threw the shoe..)
I really like Nick's statements about Americans being stubborn. It's exactly how I feel.
Emily, I like the definition you posted.
ReplyDeleteI must admit that I really don't have anything terrible to say against socialism. I have always thought that communism was a good thing. Before someone jumps on me, let me say that I believe in our world, communism is good in theory, bad in practice. As humans, we can never really acheive that type of community without becoming violent or corrupt, especially a community as big as a nation. With that in mind, I'd like to refer to Mary's comment that we are instinctively competitive. I'm going to disagree with this. I think that we are taught growing up as Americans that competition is good, but of course we're taught that seeing as competition is what fuels our country! I wonder how we'd see this whole situation if we weren't brought up with such competitive lifestyles.
About Obama's healthcare plan, I would have to agree with Danielle in supporting that it is only a plan. However, I also question it's ability to work in our country at this time with the funds Obama is expecting to use for this.
ReplyDeleteI think that there are a lot of people that hear Obama has socialist views, so they freak out before doing any research. I think that Obama's plans really do scare many upper class folk (especially conservatives). His plans are very liberal and I understand being frightened about losing your security. However, considering the financial situations of the rest of the country, we need reform and that's what Obama is all about. We're at a point where I don't feel like we can really lose a whole lot more, so why not try something a little risky?
I really like and agree with what Cameron said about how Obama's rushing through this, and if it passes too soon, there's no fixing any of the holes in the plan.
ReplyDeleteIf you go to the link The Truth--Lott's Numbers, Pt. II, it says that "Americans spend almost twice as much per person on drugs as the average for other countries. U.S.-based drug companies spend vast sums to develop new drugs, and Americans pay market prices for them. Once developed, drugs are reasonably inexpensive to produce and reproduce."
If this is true, why can't Obama do something as simple as lower our pharmaceutical prices, and then our Healthcare plans won't be as expensive?
Okay, let the games begin... I noticed that Mark brought up the fact that he doesn't think that only less than 5% would join. Our government is all about making money off of something... If this insurance plan wasn't going to be profitable, they wouldn't do it. Simple as that. They wouldn't waste millions of dollars on some plan that they are going to lose money on. It wouldn't make sense for them to do that. I think they know that more people will join their plan. I think they also know it might become the majority of the option out there. Which is why I also think they are hiding it by saying they have "restrictions" to keep themselves "under control"... Think of this... if you had complete power over something... what are the odds of you limiting yourself on it? C'mon, we are all greedy to a certain extent... Do you honestly think the government is being completely legitimate with this plan? I think not. Sorry if I'm being offensive to someone out there, but I don't think so. As far as I know, (and I discussed this with mom and pop) my own health insurance is just fine. It's at a fair affordable rate, and so far it's covered almost all reasonable things I needed it to. Some of you may know I just went to the hospital this weekend... Besides the Ambulance bill (Which my job covered since they made the call) Everything else was tabbed on us. The emergency room costs, the overnight costs, medicine costs, chocolate pudding costs... ect. Of that outrageous 7 thousand dollar bill, we only had to pay $80 or so of it. And again according to my parents, we have a decently priced insurance bill that's fair. How much more could we ask for?
ReplyDeleteI really appreciate Ashley's comment about communism being good in theory, bad in practice. I think Communism has a lot of extremely appealing ideas. Equality is something we strive for, so of course Communism sounds wonderful. However, when put into action, we realize that reaching equality would make us long for inequality. No matter what, people will be unhappy with their situation.
ReplyDeleteUniversal healthcare, however, does not sound like communism to me. I feel that healthcare should be a right not a privilege. I hate to even think about not being able to go to the doctor when I needed to, or not being able to take my child to the doctor. I just think that as Americans, we are supposed to look out for one another and striving for everyone to have a decent healthcare plan is included in that.
Allen, be reminded that this plan is for the families that can't afford regular Health care. When you say "What more could we ask for?", WE really can't ask for much more, because we're already covered. But the less fortunate need more help to "get back on their feet."
ReplyDeleteAnd I also agree with Caitlin. Healthcare should be a right. If someone can't afford Healthcare, should they be punished by not getting the right treatment? Doctor's get paid enough as it is, I think they would be generous enough to donate a little extra time to help those without insurance, and they'd go home having a satisfactory feeling that they've saved a life voluntarily, and not because of the money, which to me would be a great feeling.
Dear Mr. Rootz...
ReplyDeleteYou say this healthcare plan is for those who are less fortunate...
http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml
there is a link to show you exactly who's covered and who's not... please tell me the government has not fooled you. Granted, the concept is good, but the intentions are not... It's a scam, for the government to get money, as i previously stated before, they don't want to insure the "less than 5 % of America expected to take on this plan..." no, they want to insure the more or less 10% or so of America that doesn't have insurance and maybe get another 20-100% of America to switch to the government option... I mean, why not? It's a good plan, and once they succeed, who will they compete with to keep their prices low? No one. Which is why I don't like it at all, eventually, all insurance companies are the same. As this one seems to be too. No different than any other.
Everyone has no faith in our government now a day that truly is sad. Mr. Sander’s comment about how “all insurance companies are the same”, leaves me thinking what has brought us to not trust the government anymore? Do we Americans just not trust, or is pretty much every government full of lies? Why should you lie to the people who you are so suppose to represent? If Obama is indeed lying, which I greatly hope he isn’t, he will lose all the respect I have for him. I hope Obama is just not another lying politician, but it in fact for the people.
ReplyDeleteThe government lying to us is nothing new. Which is why people see it as a possibility that this could be a lie. Think about all the scandles that have been covered up by our government. Watergate being one of the biggest one's yet. I'm not saying that alone is what ruined it, but that it's scandles like that, that have ruined the trust our people have for our country. And I'm not saying that Obama is a flat out liar, but that it is a possibility that he is. Our government has pulled this off for years. Why not continue? Don't we still ask questions like is the government hiding secrets about UFO's in area 51? Why don't they tell us about what they are doing until 50 years down the road? Why is the Kennedy assination Classified? Don't the people have a right to know how our President truely died?...
ReplyDelete